Comedian/magician/podcaster Matt Donnelly (@sweetmattyd) joins Jesse, Matt and Andy to talk about getting into magic later in life, podcasting with Penn Jillette, doing some mind-noodling on Fool Us, new faces in magic to look out for, the fight over the blackest black, using mirrors to figure out if animals are self-aware, self-replicating xenobots, and Matt's magic insider podcast Abracababble.

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